Well, it's been bloody itching me the last few days quite a lot. Perhaps this should go on my personal blog, or on the gen-gen, but I rather have it here for reasons that don't really matter into being explained.
I've noticed that for the first time in 4 years I've been part of this community, the forums have been split. And for no reason.
-There are those who post and those who don't.
That's reasonable and it's the least thing that bugs me to be honest. However for the first time I can count the guys that post. And most of them are just the IRC guys. The IRC has grown and it's very active, but if those guys didn't post, the AGS forums would be seriously inactive for days. And that wouldn't happen the last June! I know Pumaman is terribly busy, and the times are hard...but..it just feels so weird.
-There are those who support the panel and those who think it should go down.
For those who support the panel, I think you're great guys, for those who don't, I'm seriously wondering.Would you bloody protest if you had 4 cups? or 5? And you were 100% sure you shouldn't have it? Why do you say that it's wrong getting a one man review on a game, when you a) don't protest when a site reviews your game well , b) you know that every panelist expresses his opinion when a rating is decided.
-Icey Games,Goldfish, Harg
Both of those guys would have been banned in terms of IP with half of their deeds in any forum. Why are we just expecting them to just go inactive? Goldfish went inactive, so did Harg(though some action was taken here), what's with IceyGames? Why do we let him roam and break the rules that we all know for any other member it wouldn't have taken a second thought to take some action?
-Can anybody share his opinion on what happened on August 2009?
After that month all the forum regulars have stopped posting.
These are my personal opinions, and have nothing to do with SSH, Leon and the BlueCupCritic.This is probably irrelevant to the AGS blog, but I respect its followers enough to post it.
Iceygames starts to get on my nerves too. Why do people enjoy talking with him so much, that the discussion on his new game is dominating the Completed Games section of the forum, is beyond me.
ReplyDelete1. I only post when I feel I have something worth saying. Often I am mistaken :P
ReplyDelete2. The game panel dudes are cool. People will always complain about things, no matter how rad those things are.
3. With regards as to who gets banned and who doesn't, I trust the moderators' judgement and leave it at that.
4. August 2009 was when icey games' profile was created. Suspicious? YOU DECIDE!
Igor/Ascovel: I do agree with you more than you can imagine.
ReplyDeleteBen304:
1. It's okay I was barely referring to people like you and Calin and me, I'm referring to oldies that somehow stopped.
4. He didn't post at that time btw so Ben do your homework,we're looking for something big. Btw Calin also joined on August, but I doubt oldies left because some guy did some voice-acting samples.
Dual:
ReplyDeleteI think Ben is suggesting that Icey has been working behind the scenes, kidnapping old AGSers and chaining them in his attic where he makes them eat butterscotch pudding and forces them to play Final Fantasy games with him for "inspiration." While I think the butterscotch pudding bit says something disturbing about Ben (why did he have to go there you know?), the rest of his theory is sound. Thanks to Ben, I'm now sleeping with a gun under my pillow. (Well, an extra gun, I mean. Being a Texan, I already had a gun under there). Icey's not going to get me.
Igor:
I agree. The amount of attention that Icey is getting makes me sad -- even more so because it took attention away from my Oceanspirit Dennis game "Pirates on the Poopdeck!" (the only other OSD game to have been made so far -- and the only one, might I add, that was not included on this blog's OSD game round up. :P )
Ben: You are rarely mistaken.
I think it's just a matter of people getting busy in real life. May just be a coincidence that everyone got busy round about August. My own posting activity certainly fell this year because of work demands. If I don't work on my games, I don't post on AGS, and vice versa.
ReplyDeleteI admit I'm baffled by the recent slew of... strange posters. I don't understand why they're popping up all of a sudden.
As for the AGS panel, I guess it has its pros and cons like everything else.
On 1st point... here's the deal: In the last 10 years since the forums went up on the ezboards our lives have changed a lot, and the forum system remains the same. I was about 17 when I started on the forums, and now I'm turning 27 this month. In the meantime, the way we communicate has changed dramatically... the computer isn't the main way of communication for a lot of 17 year olds of today and there's many other improved systems of social internet (facebook and what have you). Us oldies are getting pretty busy. A forum has no good way to keep you up to date; you have to go there and willingly dig up stuff out of the crap. I got really busy with grad school for a couple of years and couldn't keep up so I gave up. At least this blog keeps me posted, though! Mainly because I add the feed to my daily things to check out and go there. I could subscribe tot he forum feed but it makes no sense... it's too noisy.
ReplyDeleteOn #2, the AGS panel is weird. No where else you have an elitist review system, especially for such a democratic community like AGS. Basically what the panel implies is that people's comments and reviews are meaningless.
Ponch: The subtle implication in my post that I was suggesting butterscotch pudding could be involved was necessary because without this knowledge, we cannot gain a full understanding of the sort of person we're dealing with here.
ReplyDeleteOnce we know this is part of his MO, we can evaluate the situation more accurately, and thus devise a more effective strategy to employ.
Thanks for clearing that up, Ben. I'm glad to know that I wasn't just inferring the butterscotch pudding bit, because that would have meant that I was the sicko. Instead, it's him. (Or you, if you're wrong about him). Either way, I'm off the hook, which is the important bit.
ReplyDeleteWhat Edmundo said is interesting. I never connected the increase of mobile communication to the decrease in forum activity! And like Edmundo a lot of us "oldies" have gotten, well, older and don't have the time for foruming nowadays.
ReplyDeleteActually, I personally get all my forum news from this blog. I wouldn't be aware of half of the drama that goes on otherwise! And that's all it is - drama. The more you stay away from it the happier you will be.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who think that AGS panel is weird.
ReplyDeleteHarg
Oh, so you're Anonymous? So hard to tell...anyway (put great sarcasm back there).
ReplyDeleteIs it too hard of a concept to grab that the AGS panel is a number of people that are wasting hours upon hours on games and when they clarify a rating THEY ALL GO AND SAY YAY OR NAY?
Now that's through, interesting thoughts there Edmundo, though I respect your opinion, on the 2nd you need to do some homework :P
Ponch: I respect as much as highly as a man can be respected but this whole deal with ocean-spirit is rather stupid for me.:D
auriond: Perhaps, but..well.
Perhaps we need that update to the website.
Icey may have been fun enough to make fun of for a while and he did spawn OSD, but frankly, he can get bent. Best case, he's a mildly clever and fairly dedicated troll, worst case, he's a truly retarded kid. Enough with him, I say.
ReplyDelete/gearshift
I've always liked the panel ratings, and my opinion is valuable and objective on the basis that I've never had a game rated by them. The worst insult to me would be to get a pity cup because I complained about the rater's decision. If you don't want to get your feelings hurt, don't post something as subjective as a game on the internet.
I fully support the panel, pity cup or not...
ReplyDeleteWith regards to 'oldies', people come and people go. You can't expect a community this old to have consistent regulars forever.. people get bored, people move on.
Also forums get very tedious after a while.. I've been here less than a year and even I've started to notice a lot of recurring themes and questions from newbies.. I used to read nearly every thread.. now I barely read 1 in 10... probably less.
As far as I'm aware, isn't there an (un)official policy never to ban people on the forums?
ReplyDeleteRegarding the Panel. I don't mind it. I trust their judgement and bear it in mind, but then I probably trust the public's judgment a tad more, especially if a lot of people have played it.
ReplyDeleteI'm still posting a lot, and I do wonder where some of the other folk have gone. Indeed, Icey may actually be the work of some of the older forumites who are all mocking us and laughing at us behind our backs. If Goldfish is to be beleived then some of the oldies were getting fed-up with the forum because of all the stupid religion debates and stuff... I think Icey (and Mog, perhaps) is them winding us up. They've probably got their own private forum that we can't access.
I do hope KM10 is real though... that guy is a genius.
Calin: Not sure what my thesis is on your game rating and it'd be best if we leave this, I'm sure you'll agree.
ReplyDeleteHowever it's not about having regulars or expecting them to stay forever in the forums. Heaven forbid. I'm bloody amazed that all the forum oldies have gone at once, even if they are from different eras of the forums or different parts or whatever.
Your last paragraph however may be the case. We probably need that change and now.
Sslaxx: Not sure if that's correct, I'm however aware that Andail banned Harg (even for 15 minutes) as a profile.
Stupot: Usually people love a game enough to go rate it, or get pissed enough for the same reason. I've played many AGS games and barely rated for them,unless something bugged me (good or bad). I find Living Nightmare a truly great game, not everybody does though. I'd like both ratings there in blue and red cups.
I hope Icey and whoever of those guys is real and not some Moderator. Otherwise I'll go hunting. :P
A little less conversation a little more action, please. Make games, not forum. I'm always saying: The AGS is 1st priority, GAMES are second and the forum and the reviews are the last priority.
ReplyDeleteHarg
Games are more important than forums and reviews... says the guy who hasn't published a game for a while to Calin, Dualnames and Ben...
ReplyDeleteGames are more important than forums and reviews... says the guy who removed his games from the DB becuase of bad reviews...
Games are more important than forums and reviews... says the guy left AGS community forever.
ReplyDeleteI was devoted member of AGS community for a years, but not anymore. I prefer to stay concentrated on creating not speaking.
ReplyDeleteHarg
Regarding the panel, frankly I'm not entirely happy about how it works. The main problem being that different games seem to be judged by different standards - the ratings (and their explanations) are sometimes really harsh, sometimes really gracious. Also, sometimes the rating changes after a while if a game turns out to be popular, which I'm not sure how I should interpret.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless, I certainly believe it's good to have a source of serious critique in the AGS database and that's without a doubt the panelists' ambition.
I think that it's time for a new poll: "Do you think that different games are judged by different standards by AGS panel?".
ReplyDeleteAgrees with Igors last post.
ReplyDeleteAbout the panel: The rating panel is not perfect but it's the best and the only system we have. Those who are unhappy with it are free to join the panel, play from beginning to end the 900+ games that have been reviewed already and re-review every single one of them, and not just your favorite games, the painfully bad first games that makes you want to stick a fork in your eyes too, if you think a game deserves a second review, every other games deserve one too.
ReplyDeleteAbout trolls: Don't feed them. It's as simple as that.
About old regulars leaving: Everyone joins forums and communities for different reasons, when expectations aren't met anymore, when following a community become a chore, people take the best elements from it, put them in their MSN, facebook, IRC and friend lists, and discard the rest. Internet communities are a tools we give ourselves, they're not greater causes we must sacrifice our lives and happiness to desperately keep alive.
People come, people go, that's how it is, how it will always be. If it's the survival of the community you worry about, the only time you should worry about its survival is when great AGS games will stop being made, then we'll be in trouble.
Harg: For someone who supposedly left the community, you sure post a lot. Regarding what you said about the utility of forums, forums are useful to promote, develop and confront new ideas, look for help, receive an outsider's view on our work, shares our success, our techniques and good ideas for others to profit and our mistakes too so other people don't make the same.
One of the best way to create a bad game is to create it in a sealed off environment, oblivious to new ideas, feedback, and unaware of obvious errors we made and traps we fell into. Like artistic or musical skills, game design and puzzle design are too skills that can be developed and improved over time, and the forum is a good place to do that.
blueskirt: Correctly said. On account of Harg, sshush, we're not supposed to tell. My idea exactly on the panel. If anyone thinks he's better go ahead.
ReplyDeleteI have read many many panel reviews. There are many reviewers, many different point of views and different criteria. The result is a mess, especially in the games with 2 and 3 cups rating. Yes, the panel works (for a really good games - 4, 5 cups and for the really bad games - 1 cup). But for 2 and 3 cups games the situation is very messy.
ReplyDelete